Gay / Straight Advice: Friends or Frienemies?

Question from a gay reader:
Dear Gay and Straight Guys,

I have a really hard time making and keeping friends. Living in an army town, people come and go and there's not much I can do about it but enjoy the friendships while they last. Thing is, most of my friends are straight guys. I don't really seem to get along with gay guys and women all that much, I don't know why. I just seem more comfortable hanging with straight guys, perhaps because the gay guys and women in my area seem to treat me more like competition rather than a potential friend and I have too low a self-esteem to be around that kind of competitiveness. I enjoy my straight guy friends because there's no competition there. I can just be me and that's good enough for them.

But lately, every straight guy I've had gotten close to, there seems to be some sort of crossing of boundaries. Like my current friends, two married men I usually hang together with on weekends. From day one there was some flirting from their end, even before I came out to them. It started out as nicknames like "Pretty Ricky" and "Pretty Boy" which I sharply denied, which only encouraged them to escalate to see how far they could push my buttons. Eventually it turned to putting their foot on my leg while sitting on the couch or trying to engage me into wrestling match.

For example, one just picked me off the couch out of the blue and but me in his lap and held me close as if I was some sort of baby. Later on that same night, he had feigned sleeping in his son's room and when his wife told me to go in and wake him up, he pulled me into the bed with him and wrestled me to floor. Then went back to "sleep" with me still in a choker hold. I had to tell HIM, a straight guy, that that was too much male physical contact for me, a gay guy. And this was the first day I met him, within minutes of him learning I was gay.

At first I didn't really have a problem with it. I've had this stuff happen to me before. In college I hung out with a lot of frat guys who did the same thing. I didn't really take it as sexual, more as immature and mildly annoying. Besides they mostly did it when their wives were around so it seemed like they were showing off to get a reaction from their wives, who often just ignored it. Also I just took it as their way of showing me they were comfortable with my sexuality. I probably would have preferred a less physical way of showing me this but I guess that's just how their personality's are.

It started being a problem when the touching became more frequent and public and often times both of them were touching me at the same time which caused some anxiety in me. I tried telling them to stop but they just laugh and keep doing it. It's not so much that they're touching me in any sexual way, it's more so it's just that they're invading my personal space. It's like I'm some sort of "pet" to them or a toy. In fact, the way they touch me is very much in the same way they treat their dogs. It's the very opposite of sexual and more rough and incredibly annoying.

I guess that's my fault for being inconsistent with them on what my boundaries are. I've only known them less than a month and already I'm comfortable enough with them to eat from the same plates as them and drink from the same beer cans. They also act inconsistently with me as well. One day I can make a joke about how good I am at sucking dick and they think its hilarious. Then next week and make a similar joke and they think it's gross and start acting homophobic like I'm trying to come on to them. Other times they can be touching me but when I tickle them or touch them back they push me away. There's lines being crossed here but since there's inconsistency on both sides on where the lines are, I'm left confused and frustrated and there are days I intentionally try to avoid them because I honestly don't know how they expect me to act around them.

Thing is though, like I mentioned earlier, I don't make friends easily so I don't want to burn any bridges with what little friends I do have. These guys seem to want me around for the long haul and I'd love to have friends that stick around for years instead of a few months. But I don't know where to begin with these two. What should I do? I don't want to lose what could be the only two friends I might have right now.


I felt sad after reading your post. Sad because these guys are not appreciating you, sad because you aren't setting good boundaries, and sad because you don't seem to be able to make friends with other gay men.

Given what you've told me, your two buds are not really buds.

The motivation for their behavior is really weird. I haven't wrestled with a guy since my 6th grade gym class. I don't do those things with Straight Guy, my other straight male friend, or even my gay male friends. I feel like your "friends" are trying to goad you into some kind of reaction or drama. That's not how friends behave.

I'm not a therapist, but I've been in therapy and receive good advice from friends who care about me. So here's my somewhat educated opinion: You are in a bad repetitive cycle. First the frat guys, now these guys. They are not, may I repeat not, showing you that they are comfortable with your sexuality. I don't know what they are trying to show you, but it is not respect.

Please start setting boundaries today. And respect yourself enough to carry through on them. Tell your friends that their behavior is not respectful, that they are not listening to you, and that the behavior must end. Then mean it. If they don't get it and continue to treat you like a child or a pet, move to the other side of the room. Or, better, go home. Trust me, being home by yourself is better for your ego than being harassed.

Confused and frustrated: Here's a starting point. No tales of blow jobs, no tickling, no sharing beer cans. This is not normal behavior for adults. In short, you are part of the problem.

I'm not saying to dump these friends, but I am urging you to set boundaries, say what your boundaries are, then mean it. If you have trouble meaning it, I urge some therapy. You are getting something weird out of this, and it needs to end for everyone.

I'd like to know why you have trouble making and keeping gay male friends because they see you as 'competition.' I don't really know what you mean. Competition for what? For other men? For attention? One thing I have learned along the road is that when you start seeing relationships in competitive terms, everyone loses. (Yes, I used 'loses' deliberately to make my point.)

Please work on the self-esteem issue and give gay men more chances. You might need to say, "Wow. I'm feeling that we are in competition and I don't want that. What do you think is going on here? How are you seeing me?" It'll be scary, but even if they can't respond in the way you want them to, saying how you feel is always good. And, go through the phone book and find a gay club, social group, or support group. Above all, please start taking better care of yourself.

Stay in touch.


Face it, dude, you are being harassed. But I have to agree that you're doing a horrible job of setting boundaries. Plus, your social group's hormones are out of whack. Wrestling in front of their wives, flirty tickling, and oral sex gigglefests? Get a grip.

My harsh assessment? You can't trust your friends, and they don't seem to respect you. Without trust and respect, what kind of friendship do you have? My best advice is to start over. A shared beer can is not a benchmark of a successful relationship. How about you
volunteer, play a sport, or take an art class? Don't get stuck. Keep meeting new people.

You have a lot of work to do, and if GG hasn't already recommended therapy, I will. Other gay guys and straight women should not be viewed as competition (unless you really are after straight guys, hmmmm). Many straight guys are perfectly nice, but many are not, and, in general, confused gay guys shouldn't rely on frat-boy-types as their only social connection.

Of course you should "be you." But I don't think you're very comfortable with yourself yet, and these guys are exploiting all of that insecurity. My worst fear is that this could end up in the kind of humiliating episode that causes permanent emotional damage. Just a hunch, but any father/brother issues for you to work out?

Sounds like you feel you don't have many options. But what are your long-term plans? I don't think it's a coincidence that many gay guys leave their small town upbringing to find acceptance in the big cities. Others don't and are probably fine, but I'll bet they find a way to build a better network than you have. If you have to choose between being a loner or a victim, then that's an easy choice.

Get centered, protect yourself, and keep meeting new people. The long-term will take care of itself. We're rooting for you.

--Straight Guy


Kathryn said...

Well, guys...I know you're not therapists but that advice was dead on. I cannot imagine what is going on in the SG's heads...unless they're just clueless on how to behave around someone who's gay. The competition issue bothers me...I had (yes, had) a girlfriend (I'm a straight gal, btw) who was WAY too into competition. Half the time, it wasn't even least, not that I could see. The only competition was coming from inside of HER. Therapy is an excellent idea...that and some serious volunteer/networking. Good work, guys.

Rikki said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rikki said...

Thanks for the advice. I had a feeling you guys would say that. It's not what I wanted to hear but it is very true. I don't want to leave the guys but if don't learn to respect me I will have to.

To explain the thing with other gay guys and straight women. Gay guys, in my area at least, tend to regard me as a "c*ck-blocker." I don't think I'm all that cute and I don't go out of my way to talk to guys who some other gay guy is interested in but apparently some guys do find me attractive and other gay guys get jealous and start spreading rumors about me to deter that guy away from me when I wasn't trying to "steal" that guy from them to begin with. It's this whole childish "He said, she said" BS that makes me not want to associate with gays in my town. I once asked a gay guy that I was trying to be friends with why I can't have a gay friend without being stabbed in the back and just laughed in my face and told me no two gay guys could truly be friends. I was either someone to have sex with or I was his competition. He called me naive and weak and I never heard from again. Maybe I'm better off without him but it was a real blow to my ego. I don't think I've fully recovered from it.

It's the same to a lesser degree with girls. With girls though it seems that some of them fall in love with me and try to convince me that I'm really a straight guy tricked into being gay or that I'm secretly bi. When I repeatedly turn them down they stop being my friend no matter how sensitive and kind I to be because I hate it when I getting rejected. I hat it more to reject them. It's come to the point where I avoid girls altogether because I don't want to hurt them.

Maybe I do need therapy. And maybe I need to move out of this small army town.

Rikki said...

Interesting you bring up daddy issues though. My father used to tease gay guys by pretending to flirt with them and when they flirted back he'd just laugh and tell them he's straight and that they were stupid for falling for it. I guess I'm karma showing my dad what all those gay guys he mistreated went through. Not that he learns anything from it because he still thinks he can't do any wrong.

Straight in Upstate said...

I can address the core issue: looking for friends and putting up with a bunch of weird crap from the wrong ones. Everyone's right - it is better to be home alone than putting up with stuff that you know is wrong, makes you uncomfortable, and makes you feel worse about yourself in the long run. Figure out who you are then stick with it - leave the frat boys, drama queens and "converters" behind - it may take a long time to find some good friends but it's worth it.

Rikki said...

Update: They're slowly starting to respect my boundaries now. It's strictly handshakes now. And no more sharing drinks and food. It's weird taht I kinda miss the intimacy but it's was the wrong kind of intimacy. Misquided and not very clearly defined. It could have easily escalted to some real trouble between any gay guy and his staright guy friends. Glad I nipped it the bud before things got messy and one or both sides went too far.

I'm meeting new people too.

Viagra Online said...

for this a many others reason I like to keep my distance from gay guys, I don't mind if one come and talk to me, in fact one of my friends is gay, inclusive thanks to him I met beautiful girls, but there's a line, us in our side your in your side.

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